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After my opinion it was U.S.S. Essex. It was a very up-to-date aircraft carrier. Also her crew was very brave and they intercepted all the Kamikaze attacks.
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Master Zeus, the SPITFIRE was a type, but also a developmental series that was in production on lines of the Supermarine factory during all the period of WWII! You must specify a concrete version. Or you consider Spitfire Mk.IA as the best fighter in WWII??
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I know that this topic is today very popular and well-known, but I wouldn't lock this topic yet. We can discuss - for example - which air forces had the most reliable system of verification of kills. After my opinion, it was R. A. F.
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I’d like to know, how it was with well-known Czech hetman of the Hussites – Jan Žižka – and his participation in Battle of Grunwald.
Whole 19th century - within these days, it has been presenting the fact that Jan Žižka took part in this great battle. It has been writing that Žižka gained his experience in Polish Army and especially in its fighting tactics against Cruisers. Besides, it has been writing that Žižka fought in Battle of Grunwald.
But, many today’s Czech historicians are rather skeptical to this statement. They write that these opinions come from 19th century – the century when many of Slavic nations were not free. Then the Panslavic ideas have rosen that idealised the history in a romantic way. Also they claim, there are no evidence that Jan Žižka would fight in Battle of Grunwald.
Could anybody of Polish „friends of history“ help me with this problem???
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- Yes, Hitler’s sentence that Czech workers are doing a good job at Protectorate’s factories – there was half a propaganda, half a truth. Hard to say that Czech workers should choose another option. You have to take into account that Germans established very different system in their occupied nations: a different system they established in France (rather similar as in Norway), a different in Poland, totally different in Czechia and Moravia, and again different in Ukraine. It is a very simple thing to say that this or that nation had its good time during WWII, not to blame it. In Protectorate, Germans took an excellent level of Czech workers and technicians, a wide-developed base of Czech industry, the engineering and the engine production. They permited and retained a relative national and an independent culture for Czechs.
- To sabotage: From today’s view it is easy to say, but – this is a half of suicide. Naturally, Germans counted on to that possibility. Their inner production system was, that each little (not so) important part of an engine was obliged to have its separate serial number – and it was written down in particular catalogue, some workers had to subscribe to a product. In spite of it, some Czech workers made their sabotage, but it had to be a very secret, it had be good organized. First – in engine repair – Czech workers extended period for their repairs to get them to the front as late as possible. Second – some Prague engineers thought up a very dangerous oil (or vaseline) using for aircraft engines, which after hundreds hours of using caused an air accident. Germans have never found out it. For example, in Ringhoffer-Werke Nesselsdorf (Tatra Kopřivnice), where air-cooled engine trucks have produced (many for the Afrika Korps), there were allocated only two Gestapo-members against the sabotage. But they occasionally have traced not with a help of a violence but by a targeted question.
- Another to „the Final solution of Czech question“: After „the victorious war“, SS-ideologists, as well as Himmler or Heydrich, reserved already the space for Czechs: PATAGONIA – the rugged country not far from the South Pole!
- And another to assassignation of Heydrich: Still before Perl Harbor, the American Intelligence service rated and compared all important nazi-personality. As the most dangerous they appreciated Heydrich, his intelligence and his political ambitions. As an officer he was a very able man (although he was a SS-general, he saw some actions during Battle of Britain, as a fighter pilot of Bf 109 E, in rank of Lieutenant of Luftwaffe. Surely, it was an adventure for him – finally Hitler had to stop him it). Americans handed over this a very secret information, their research, to British Intellicence service. And British knew how to use it … This my information is in the context of gregski’s sentence that British wanted to preserve Canaris against Heydrich. There is even such an assumption that Himmler personally hit to the healing of deeply hurt Heydrich after the assassignation. He recalled an able doctor and other things. He was afraid of Heydrich’s influence, his political power and his ability too.
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politolog_historyk: "not everything is black or white"
Oh, Polish survived WWII-veterans would certainly disagree with that your opinion!
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But we don't appreciate WWII from the view the bad side!!! (are you perhaps neo-nazi?)
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Well, you ask me about the situation before the uprising.
So - have you ever heard such a word "HEYDRICHIADE"? The terror, which was started by Amtierender Reichsprotektor and Gruppenfuehrer SS Karl Hermann Frank after the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich? Then a village called Lidice was burned. The brutal terror broke out mainly in Prague and in the nearest surroundings. In Pankrác-jailhouse, not far from Ruzyně Airport, the guillotine executed all the days and nights.
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Thanks. Yes, I mean Stanislav Skalski and Josef Priller.
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Yes, I agree. That's no problem. I only responded to a dispute between politolog-historyk, and secesjonista. I would only formulate the philosophical principle of this problem. Another example: Witold Skalski (21 kills) was cetainly the HERO. Lt.-col. Priller (101 kills) was a more successful soldier as a fighter pilot than Skalski (according to his shot-down credit). But, only we cannot match him to the philosophical cathegory HERO.
And just MUNDUR ("Jaka szkoda, że nie nosił naszego munduru!") is the crucial moment - who fight for good ideas, for the freedom(and so on), and who fight for the demagogy and the violence. It has nothing to do with the fortitude, the courage or the modesty of any soldiers.
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Hans-Ulrich Rudel rightly belongs to six THE BRAVEST men of WWII. As the Ju 87-pilot he acted more than 2,500 flights and he destroyed 519 Russian armoured vehicles. As a soldier he was certainly a dauntless, an intrepid and a brave man.
But, because of he didn't fight for a right thing, but in fact for Hitler's ideas, we cannot say that he was a HERO. The HEROES have not been fighting for wrong things! (Into the same cathegory we can fill also Wittmann, Kretschmer and other nazi-excellent soldiers).
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I'm sorry, I haven't got the book "Triumph and Tragedy" at home, but in my summer apartment near Prague. I'll go there only in July. Therefore, at the moment, I can't write exactly the reason why Polikarpov fell from Stalin’s grace. As soon as I go on my holiday, I'll put more precise information in this FORUM.
As I can remember, Polikarpov was ordered to go on duty - was sent on a business trip - to Germany in 1939 or 1940. After he returned, everything was different and I-200 was confiscated by Mikoyan.
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FSO: Przecież ja nie znam sytuacji kiedy przedstawiciele jednego biura konstrukcyjnego wchodzą do drugiego, bardziej znanego biura mówiąc: Panie kolego, proszę nam dać wasz najnowszy projekt.
FSO, you haven’t understand my English again. I wrote that I wouldn’t develop any Wikipedia sentences, but not that the Wikipedia’s information was wrong!!! (Please, read me once again!)
It is a very known thing that Polikarpov fell from Stalin’s grace. I only added any less-known information to MiG-3. What’s special??
If you don’t believe me, buy and read the book „Triumph and Tragedy“ – work together by one Czech-, and one Ukrainian historicians. (I won’t write in this FORUM, on what page that information is.)
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Still to gregski’s 3 questions (and his „resolute“ answers):
When I was much younger, I had as similar opinion for Prague Revolt, as gregski have: „Prague Revolt was completly useless, with no military meaning; Prague „warriors“ should have waited better for Allied army (and to sit quiet at home), and not to bloodshet of many Prague people.“
Then I had read some historical books about Prague Revolt and so I changed my opinions at all. I naturally cannot describe the whole contain of those books, but concerning gregski’s questions:
ad 1) I can’t completely agree with him.
ad 2) I don’t agree with him.
ad 3) I can agree with him, but not absolutely.
By the way, you don’t consider Prague executions of civil people as not so brutal?
You asked, why Prague Revolt didn't break out much earlier. If you are interested in the military aspect so much - what is better for the success of a revolt? When the enemy is strong, or weak? Of course weak. But you’d decide probably otherwise.
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wikipedia nazywa to "popadnięciem w niełaskę", cokolwiek może to oznaczać. Możliwe, że Polikarpow próbował robić coś na własną rękę, lub widzą takie a nie inne rozwiązania w Niemczech wymóc zmiany jakich nie chciało ministerstwo?
But I'm not developing the Wikipedia sentences: I have read a very good historical book by historicians Dymič + Šedivý. They described in detail situation of "I-200 confiscation" from Polikarpov to Mikoyan's bureau.
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Indeed most of your questions was answered by Wolf, FSO and others. I can add only some interesting things.
- When gen. Patton achieved Pilsen on 5th May and learnt about the annunciation of Prague Revolt, he asked U.S. Headquarters for a permission to help Prague insurgents, but gen. Bradley disalloved it.
- Concerning the airspace over the Protectorate, at the time Soviet Headquarters annonced that all planes over Prague, which wouldn’t carry red stars on its wings, would shoot down.
This fact is confirmed in lots of books-memoirs. Maj. Erich Hartmann, who flew from Německý Brod Airfield only before the war ending, described as he had attacked the Allied air formation over East Czechia area: Some time there were two task forces in flight – one Soviet, and one American. Suddenly Hartmann attacked from clouds and at high speed he shot down Soviet plane from the rear of their flight formation. Nobody noticed anything. He repeated his attack, he gained another kill, but he could observe under cover of the clouds as Russian fighters attacked American formation!! Russians thought that it had been Americans who had shot on them. Similar situation was repeted in his next flight.
- Among members of Prague Revolt Headquarters, there were people of different political interests. The revolt commander was gen. Kutlvašr, a Czechoslovak prewar officer. For example, Josef Smrkovský represented Prague Communist Party of Czechoslovakia. (He will be known as a statesman during the Prague Spring /only before Soviet invasion in 1968/). Then he was an orthodox Bolshevik and according their „revolutionary theory“ they supposed that the socialistic revolution would break out during the Prague Revolt, in late of world war, like Lenin’s October Revolution had begun. Therefore Smrkovský ordered all the left-wing workers and labourers not to build barricades in streets against Schörner tanks, but to stay in their factories during the Revolt and to prepare Bolshevik revolution. Czech historician Karel Kaplan collected circumstances of this fact: he has found out that during Prague Revolt really few workers fell in streets or on Prague barricades, most of them really stayed in their factories.
- In fact there was really a revolution mood in Prague during first days of May, 1945. Some very old people, who remember these historic days, used to often say: „…during the May’s Revolution…” However they don’t mean a Bolshevik or socialistic revolution, but the revolt against Germans only, the fight against occupants.
- In Prague town district Dejvice, there are two buildings of special Axis-forces: one – a residence of German SS, and the second – the seat of Latvian SS. While German SS-men resigned on a fight (they well knew what would be in the future – the Gulag), Latvian SS-men fought to the last man (they also knew what would be in the future – no the Gulag, but the death). Last those soldiers fell almost in late afternoon, on 9th May. It is an interesting thing that after WWII Russians founded the press agenture TASS in former Latvian SS-men’s building. But in fact it was NKVD-, and lately KGB residence.
- Concerning the executions and violence carried out by Germans, in late of WWII German soldiers executed lots of people in Prague district Kobylisy. On 7th May, when German forces gained particular control in the city, 17-20years-old SS-men made executions at the Railway Station Praha-Střed (former and today known also as Masaryk’s Railway Station). For example, these SS-men shot there a 10years-old boy - without a remorse – because of he had a pistole hidden under his clothing.
When you are walking along Prague streets – rather in suburbs – you often can note (aprox. one metre above the pavement) the metal or concrete tablo with a name, or names of fallen warriors. And the vase with flowers…
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godny uwagi był też radziecki MIG-3 zaznaczam że nie zgłaszam go do najlepszych jednkaze swoją role odegrał na froncie wschodnim
Yes, MiG‘s Mikulin-engine achieved its best performances in higher altitudes. But most of air battles in Eastern Front placed in medium-, and lower altitudes, where MiG-3 was rather heavy-handed and a bit hard for piloting.
It is an interesting and less-known thing that I-200 (the first prototype) was originally designed by Polikarpov. With a help of yet unexplained intervention from Soviet centre (probably directly from minister Jakovlev), I-200 was taken and moved to Mikoyan’s construction bureau.
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"lancaster" and "gregski", you don't know what the historical discussion is at all. Your behavior is like of teenagers! (You can put it on the sign and underline it again.) It is not silly but stupid!
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"Wolf", I appreciate your excellent knowledge of Czech history. Thanks.
"lancaster" and "gregski", when you want to discuss the topic of the Prague Revolt, you should read some books about it, and not to write silly things, when you know very little about it!
„lancaster“, I expected that one of your compatriots („Wolf“) would correct your mistakes in knowledge of chronological history of the Prague Revolt. When you want to appreciate history, you should take into account all the aspects of historical events, not to pick up only one event, and to deny other facts. When you want to discuss the topic of the Prague Revolt, you should read some books about it!
„lancaster“: „Czesi w czasie II WW nie wykazali się specjalnym bohaterstwem“. I’m sorry, these sentences are dedicated for „lancaster“ only:
1) I wouldn’t want to change our interest in history onto nationalist conclusions! You know – I never wanted to write in this FORUM, as Polish soldiers had been expelling Czech civil citizens from the whole Teschen area after the Munich Agreement, in October 1938! (Poland advantaged of very bad situation for Czechoslovakia and behaved like Germans – they grabbed this part of Czechoslovak territory.) Wasn’t it perhaps your „specjalne bohaterstwo“?
2) I never wanted to write in this FORUM about some Polish soldiers that killed Czech civil citizens and raped Czech girls in northeastern Czechia during Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in August 1968! Wasn’t it perhaps your „specjalne bohaterstwo“?
3) I never wanted to write in this FORUM about Polish lisowczycy who killed Czech peasants and rustics, and raped Czech girls on the imperial territory between 1620 and 1626! (According to historic annals and chronicles, Lisowczycy are considered as the worst mercenaries of Thirty Years‘ War, that had been passing through Czech territory!) Wasn’t it perhaps your „specjalne bohaterstwo“?
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Japanese equivalent of Fi-156 Storch was Kokusai Ki-76 (Stella). The aitcraft was designed by Kozo Masuhara, without access to one of the German aircraft (but probably with some technical support). The 240hp Argus inverted-V engine of the Storch was replaced by a more powerful Hitachi Ha-42 nine-cylinder air-cooled radial engine, and the slotted flaps of the Storch were replaced with more sophisticated Fowler-flaps. In many other respects the aircraft were similar, though the Ki-76 had improved general characteristics, resulting in the Ki-76 being able to outperform the Fi-156 in everything except landing distance. The Ki-76 went into production in the fall of 1942 and was used until the end of the war as a liaison and artillery observation plane. It is not known how many of these light planes, known as "Stella" to the Allies, were built before productoin ended in 1944. Also the crew consisted of only 2 men – the pilot and the observer.
„The Soviet Storch“ was OKA-38, made by Antonov. After being presented with a Storch, Stalin ordered Antonov to start an unlicensed production of the plane. The Argus engine was replaced by a MV-6, which was a copy of a French Renault engine (propably unlicensed as well) and the fuel load was increased, but otherwise the OKA-38 was an exact copy. Nevertheless the STOL capacities were degraded considerably. The production never really got started before it was ended prematurely by the German attack in 1941.
(Much information was taken from Rankin Hansen’s Internet block.)
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Hi, boys.
Thanks for choice question which is close to my country. I’ve got much to say to this topic.
First, one very important military fact: Czechoslovakia had been building a ribbons of fortifications and fortresses along its northern border – with Germany – it means with Upper and Lower Silesia (what you have mentioned), from 1933 to 1938. Soviet headquarter knew it, they supposed using of those fortresses by German forces for the defence of Protectorate. They also took into account the experience with getting strength during WWI. It was being considered very difficult.
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Maybe I wrote not so typical example to explain that WWII hadn't started in Spain. You didn't notice my sentences as I lately had written about Stalin's resignation of Spain: After Stalin found out that creative leaders of Spanish republican political front are mostly Social Democrats and Trotskyists, he quickly put his hands away from Spain!!! (And he only sent some war machines to test them in a real combat.)
But during the cold war it was not like in Spain. Soviets supported "their" war side in Korea, in Vietnam as well as in many African and other world's minor conflicts till the end. They attempted to change a political system in those countries even if they knew that they were supporting "the progressive forces", but not just of left-Bolshevik wing. This is a difference from the pre-war situation: One of many reasons was that pre-war Soviet Union had been in a politic isolation. Also Stalin appreciated non-Bolshevik socialist left forces as so bad as "the imperialists"; he used the term "the class enemy". That's why he put his hands away from Spain.
Hitler helped Franco really well. It's truth. But he failed to forced Franco to join his forces for WWII.
Mussolini wanted Italy to have so large Mediterranean territory, as the Roman empire'd had (and much larger). When Spain Civil War broke out, he supposed that WWII would start about in 1937. The whole Italian war industry was set to this period. Later Mussolini didn't want to go to war: He personally wished the alliance with Britain, but it was politically impossible. Then, on 10th June, 1940 his forces attacked the French Provence, but only as a commitment for Hitler.
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FSO: zarówno wojska rządowe jak i frankistowskie w Hiszpanii miały wsparcie.
A co z tego? What influence did „supported forces of world power“ have in Korean War? Was the WWIII perhaps from this conflict? And what influence did „supported forces of world power“ have in Vietnam War? Was the WWIII perhaps from this conflict? By the way, what influence did „supported forces of world power“ have in Afghanistan? Was the WWIII perhaps from this conflict?
I don’t deny the participation of European powers in Spain Civil War, but the outbreak of WWII had other roots. Mind, that the topic is "Gdzie i kiedy zaczela sie II wojna swiatowa?" Take more historical facts (some of them I wrote earlier) and skip your political account!
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Andreas: … w ten konflikt zaangażowały się trzy mocarstwa europejskie oraz kolejne trzy w umiarkowanym stopniu.
FSO: … Hiszpania, dokładniej wojna domowa, była, jak zauważył Andreas konfliktem w który zaangażowały się inne państwa.
What do you mean by the word „zaangażowały się“? If you speak a little English and understand my sentences, you have read what I explained in my last article beneath, how Germany and Italy „zaangażowały się“ in this conflict.
What’s a direct relationship between war in Spain and German attack Poland in September 1939 or the attack France in May 1940? There is no direct polical- and military relation. I repeat once again, it is not interesting for me any polical phrases, but historical facts!
And concerning Soviet Union „zaangażowanie“ - it was really minor! After Stalin found out that creative leaders of Spanish republican political front are mostly Social Democrats and Trotskyists, he quickly put his hands away from Spain!!! (And he only sent some war machines to test them in a real combat.)
FSO: Twoją ojczyznę, trzeci kraj chciał na tym wszystkim upiec swoją pieczeń. Pół roku po zakończeniu wojny - kości zostały rzucone.
„Upiec swoją pieczeń, kości zostały rzucone“ – What idyllic words! I must learn them! But only phrases again – you must be a former political worker! But seriously: you’re wrong about Czechoslovakian collapse. The collapse of Czechoslovakia has no relationship with Civil War in Spain. The reason was „the Sudeten question“, and "it didn't bake in Spain"! I described those events in detail in my FORUM-speech on 25th November, 2010. Read it.
Bye.
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Najlepszy ciężki krążownik II wś.
w Marynarka
Napisano · Zgłoś odpowiedź
I can add some words I have read about PRINZ EUGEN-heavy cruiser. There was an interesting statement in the book "The sea in the flames" which I read more than 30 years ago. The topic is the well-known duel on 24th May 1941 between Bismarck+Prinz Eugen against H.M.S.Hood+H.M.S.Prince of Wales. I can accurate remember the sentence: "We can't deny the possibility that this fate grenade, which caused the sinking of HOOD, could have been fired not only from the battleship BISMARCK but also from the heavy cruiser PRINZ EUGEN. Nobody can already confirm it today!"